Notary & Apostille

NoTary - aka yes this is a real signature

Might as well jump right into this one. First of all you got to know your rights.  The State of California and I bet most states now regulate this aspect of documentation.  I do remember 30 years ago when getting a notary was a simple as reading a book and going down to the county registrar and filling out an application.  Well it is big business now.  Heck they even have on the codes the price you can charge.  Not to bad but remember this is per signature and it can add up quickly.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=6917896482+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

CALIFORNIA CODES
GOVERNMENT CODE
SECTION 8200-8230

8211. Fees charged by a notary public for the following services shall not exceed the fees prescribed by this section.

(a) For taking an acknowledgment or proof of a deed, or other instrument, to include the seal and the writing of the certificate, the sum of ten dollars ($10) for each signature taken.

(b) For administering an oath or affirmation to one person and executing the jurat, including the seal, the sum of ten dollars ($10).

Finding your Notary

How about some scenarios.  Some Kinko's offer Notary service.  As you can see there is a set fee that they can charge for the Notary.  That does not mean that they can't add on extra fees in doing the transaction, it just gets called another user type fee.  Ever make sense of your phone bill?  If you have a cell phone why does the city tax you?  It is not as though the city is doing anything to earn this fee that they charge.  Wouldn't you be better off using a PO Box in some city that has a really low tax rate - say somewhere in Nevada?  dang it getting off track here.  Another option is going to a bank.  Now some banks will only notarize their own records and won't go willy-nilly notarizing papers that have nothing to do with them.  Keep in mind that all the signers of the paper have to be there to sign too.  If you have a credit union you will find that they are more accommodating than your local, ah hem, Wells Fargo or WaMu, after all the credit union is your bank while the others are a business and the business is $$.  Ask your friends if they are a notary.  We hit the jackpot as one of our friend is a notary.  We decided to use, and I mean use, her as our primary source for the notary.  Strike a deal.  A grip can be saved.  Just how much.  Well for the use of our laundry machine and a few dinners this is what we have rung up.

Home Study Agency, approximately 12 forms needed notary signature and stamps.  Minimum notary cost $120.  Our cost, 2 dinners.

Adoption Agency, approximately 49 forms needed notary signatures and stamps.  Minimum notary cost $490.  Our cost, 3 loads of laundry.

Grand total just for notary ~$600.

Now our notary either came to us or we met after church or at a mutual friend house.  The real money is in the travelling notary business.  There are not fee restrictions for a travelling notary.  This is a notary that will, come to your house or meet you at a mutual location.  Check the yellow pages, the travelling rate ranges anywhere from $35 to see you to upwards of $100, plus the standard notary fee. 

Sob Story

So we thought we were almost done with getting everything done.  Take a close look at your notary.  It is best if their commission does not come for at least a year better to have two (2) from the date of the signature.  A couple of ours come due later this year and guess what.  That's right folks.  They sent the papers back to get them notarised again.  This was not our friends notary but the notary from the local police department 2x and one from a place of employment 1x.  For a second I thought I would have to get the reports redone but there is a way to just get a lead sheet put on them, you sign it and then get that notarise.  True and Valid report seems to be the words to use.  Cha-ching $30 more please.

Notarizing the Notary - just what the bloody heck is an Apostille?

the following is an excerpt from the State of California web site:

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/notary_authentication.htm

Notary Public
Authentication Information
Apostille or Certification

The California Secretary of State provides authentication of public official signatures on documents to be used outside the United States of America. The country of destination determines whether the authentication is an Apostille or Certification.

The California Secretary of State can only authenticate documents issued in the State of California by the following public officials and their deputies:
County Clerks or Recorders
Notaries Public

Some examples of documents submitted for authentications are:

Birth Certificates
Marriage Licenses
Papers for adoption purposes
Certificates of Non-Marital Status
Powers of Attorney

Documents submitted to the Secretary of State for authentication must be currently certified by the appropriate public official or must be notarized by a California Notary Public.

Any document executed by County Health Officers and County Local Registrars can be authenticated only if the document is first certified by the county clerk/recorder.

To avoid delays that may result from out-of-date documents, a document certified by a county official (e.g. county clerk) should have a certification date within the last five years or a new certified copy should be obtained from the appropriate county official.

The customer must identify the country of destination when the documents are submitted to the Secretary of State. If documents are submitted by mail to the Sacramento office, a letter identifying the country of destination must accompany the documents. To facilitate the processing of documents submitted by mail, please include a self-addressed envelope.

There is a $20.00 processing fee (per signature authenticated) and a $6.00 special handling fee (per public official for documents submitted over the counter).

Clear?

Well the Apostille notarizes the notary signature.  It verifies to a higher level the signature of the notary.  It says yep this notary is really authorised to stamp these papers.  Instead of being at a county of city level you have now travelled up to the state level.  I equate an Apostille as being out sick during grade school.  Generally a parents note would be ok.  If the school played hardball then they would also ask for a note from the doctor.  Not a good enough analogy, ok how about. The crime scene investigator says that is your fingerprint on the gun.  Just to make sure the print , the gun and a copy of your prints are sent to the FBI and now the FBI says yep the results that the local police force said are true that is really your print we concur.

The cost of this the Apostille is even steeper than the notary.  Oh it gets good.  In some states, not California mind you the rate is only $5, yes I do have a $5 Apostille from another state.  In some states it is even cheaper if you tell them that the Apostille is for an Adoption, I paid $3 in one state, not so in California.  How much will the Apostille run.  I don't know.  I am still waiting for a bill from the Adoption Agency.  It depends on how the state of California decides to break down the paperwork.  For California I have about 5 unique State of California notary signatures that are to be verified.  I could get a bill for $100.  However, that signature is on various forms, letters, photographs and it would not surprise me one bit if they consider each signed document as a signature.  In that case I have over 49 documents for the adoption and that will skyrocket the cost to almost $1000.  Seeing how cash strapped the state of Kali-forn-ya is I wonder just what the rate will be.

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The Home Study Forms

We plunk down a grip of cash for the Home Study.  In return we get a pile of documents.  Take note, you will get a bigger pile from the Adoption Agency.  If you want to save time it may be best to do them in tandem.  There is some overlapping.  As an example, your references. 

So just what do you have to gather?  Bank records, bank reference letter (notarized of course), a bio, medical clearance forms, blood test for a few diseases (not covered by most insurances), tax records for the past 3 years, live scan finger printing, personal finance statement (debits and credits, net worth, liability), affirmations that you are a pillar of the community, firearms statement, grievance procedure, confidentiality statement, numerous releases to help you gather info for this list.

Did you get that last part.  Yeah we signed a bunch of releases, had then notarized and sent them off to the HS.  Guess what they do not run this information down for you.  Oh no this is your own private Paper Chase.  They came back with a little note telling us that these are to "Help you facilitate getting these documents."

I am really going to have to get a blog for Notary soon.  Suffice it to say that every piece of paper to both the HS and the AA will need to be notarized.

Reference Letters

Now one would think that a reference letter is a reference letter.  Guess what not all reference letters are created equal.  For the HS the references had a form to fill out.  One engineer friend of mine took the form and gave very short answers.  Looking at the questions it is probably the easy I would have answered them.  After all they only gave you a very short space to write in.  Well guess what?  Talking to the social working they really want you to put you answers on a separate sheet of paper.  Well that wasn't in the instructions.  I told my references to keep the reference answers to one page.

The AAA on the other hand just asks for a reference letter.  Humm a blank sheet of paper, and no direction.  After watching too many crime shows I felt as if our references were in the room and the pad and pencil was thrown down to them and good cop says, "Just write down what you know about the perp".  Choose your references carefully.

On both forms they want the reference's name, address, phone  number and if available e-mail addy.

Bank Records

You have got to be kidding me you want a statement from each of my banks.  Great.  I have $$ in CD in Denver, a credit Union in Sacramento, a mortgage from Montana, an IRA in New York, and three different banking facilities in Los Angeles, and you want a notarized statement from each of them?  And the chase begins.  Lets just say that one bank did not have a notary and had to send it to another bank to get said notary.  Another bank sent me a notarised letter but no –one signed it.  One bank said there would be a charge for such information.  I told them that if they charge me then I would close out my accounts with them.  Oh sorry, they thought I needed it today and to get a notary there that day would involve a charge.  And if I wait until your part time employee who has the notary come to work?.  Well then, it would be free of course.  If you are going in for a face-to-face then be prepared to make it a multi day event.  First of all some banks and especially credit unions do not have the data readily available.  Such as the average balance for the last three (3) years, total deposits for each year.  There really is no problem getting the material it just takes time and a good sense of humour finding the banker that has the skills required for the task at hand.

Blood Test

Well it really is more than a blood test.  Some of the forms are a check off yes or no for a series of popular diseases that may disqualify you.  There is a requirement for a blood draw and test of said diseases.  Now unless you go in and tell your doc that you recently had a tattoo from, had unprotected relations with either the local gigolo or harlot and now you have this funny rash that won't go away these tests are generally not covered by your health insurance policy.  Especially if you are in an HMO (Health Maintenance Organization), guess what HMO's and even a lot of PPO's do not operate with a preventative charter.  No as Michael Moore and quite a few others have pointed out that would mean they would have to spend some of the $$ that you give to them each pay check on you and that means that their bonus at the end of the year would be reduced.  Well our health system is a whole 'nother blog in itself.  Plan on this out of pocket expense costing you anywhere from a couple hundred dollars to a few hundred dollars per person.  Did I forget to tell you that each member of the family has to have these tests?

Finally there is the Bio

Again, at a least for us, it was simpler to just create a WordStar (had to throw that little program from the '80's in) type file for this.  Get your name on each page.  Get ready for a series of questions that are going to take you some time to think about and form a response.  We had real fun putting together the names of your parents, brothers and sisters and their children.  They want names, date of births, years married, years divorced, education, what they do, your education. phone numbers.  Mine was rather easy 2 parents still married, 3 siblings and 3 nephews and nieces.  Helloooo Nurse on the other had has step nine sisters and step-sisters (that we know about), some whom we haven't talked to in over 7 years.  We answered the questions as best we could.  There is not role playing per se but there are what if questions.  When looking at them I said to myself, well it is one thing to write down how I think I will respond to a situation but it is a whole other thing to be actually in the scenario and respond.  My bio was over 10 pages long. 

One of the questions asked was if you have any incidents that are defining in your early childhood.  I had two.  One was surviving the bombing of Roseville and having dog show in Orangevale that day.  We lived in a town that on either side were two Air Force bases.  Bombs destined for Vietnam were shuttled through.  One day a train load got fire and started cooking off.  At first I thought it was just jets breaking the sound barrier.  Back in the 60's and 70's it was fairly common.  It was really cool being outside when it happened.  First you didn't know when some hot shot pilot would break out and then the shock wave would literally vibrate you to your bones.  Man that was great.  Well here I am think man those guys are going crazy today.  Later in the day you could see the smoke from the explosions.  Ever try to have a dog off leash at a regional show day.  It doesn't work too well.  So that was one defining day.  The other also involved a dog from 4-H.  This was state champions.  One was showmanship.  My bitch lost out to a purebred.  I was crushed because I know my mutt showed well.  The judge gave me second and told me that the purebred will always get scored above a mutt, thus I walked away with second.  Later in the day we had obedience.  The last skill was to get the dogs to lay down for five (5) minutes with you out of site.  As we were putting the dogs through their paces I noticed that there was some candy on the floor.  I left it there.  When we ad to get the dogs to lay I made sure my mutt was no where near the candy.  The purebred that I lost to though put his dog next to the treat.  Yeah Baby.  Yep I got the blue ribbon for that one.  I think I also scored style points because for the life of me I could not get my dog to lay down.  The only way I could get her to do it was to have her lay on her back.  So there is this mutt four paws in the air for 5 minutes.  Not bad.

Here are some links on the train hazard.  Thirty years later the farms are being turned over into cookie cutter home and every once in a while either a shell casing or a whole bomb gets unearthed.  They didn't have fuses in them but the high energy explosives are still viable.

http://www.insideroseville.net/2004-fall/article-rails.html

http://www.cnn.com/US/9710/19/bombs.found/index.html

http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/jan99/story8.htm

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/archives/hassna/roseville.html